Monday, November 15, 2010


**First off, I don't mean any offense to anyone. I'm just curious and my mind thinks of these things.

Maybe I'm just incredibly naive and a wishful thinker.. but I really don't see how God can judge people so harshly..


(Concerning Outer Darkness)

32 They are they who are the asons of bperdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
33 For they are avessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
34 Concerning whom I have said there is ano bforgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
35 Having denied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having crucified him unto themselves and put him to an open shame.
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels-
Can someone explain this to me? Do we really believe this? I don't. So, people who don't accept Jesus as their Savior, will suffer in Hell for their sins for 1,000 years during the millennial reign of Christ? Really? That seems like a really long time. And after, they will be resurrected and receive an immortal physical body and go to the Telestial Kingdom? Interesting.. My question is, can we mingle with the other people in all three kingdoms? Are we allowed to see those people? I've asked a missionary this before, and was asked "Why would you want to? There's a reason why there are three different kingdoms." OH. Yeah, okay.. Your thoughts?

"If you judge people, you have no time to love them." - Mother Teresa of Calcutta

"Judgements prevent us from seeing the good that lies beyond appearances." - Wayne Dyer

"We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that your's is the only path." - Paulo Coelho

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world." - Georgia Harkness


MormonMommy said...

Hey Ash... thought I'd offer a few answers to your questions. Hope it helps.

First of all, the scripture you referenced, that is talking about the "sons of perdition" who are cast off into outer darkness... this is a judgment reserved for only a few select people. This would be for someone who, let's say for example, Joseph Smith, who had actually SEEN Jesus Christ... he no longer had to have faith, because he KNEW... if at any point after he KNEW of the reality of Christ's existence, if he then DENIED his existence, there would be no forgiveness for that and he would be cast into outer darkness. Outer darkness is NOT a kingdom of glory. There is no progression there. And, although I'm not the judge obviously, I don't know of anyone in history who falls into this category. There will probably be some, but not a whole lot. Because for the vast majority of us, we live by faith. We haven't SEEN Christ, we simply believe in Him and believe that He is real.

In Moses 1:39 God says, "Behold this is my work and my glory, to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." God's greatest desire and purpose is to help as many of His children have immortality and eternal life as possible. That gives me great comfort to know that He wants, more than anything, my happiness... my ETERNAL happiness.

As to your other question... can we mingle with others in all three kingdoms... the way that I understand it is that people will be able to minister and visit with those of any kingdom below their own. The order of the kingdoms is Celestial, Terestial and Telestial. So those in the Telestial kingdom would only be able to receive visits from those from the Terestial and Celestial kingdoms, not make those visits to those kingdoms themselves... does that make sense?

I would be happy to discuss more of this doctrine with you if you really want to. Feel free to call me, email me or catch me on FB chat sometime. Love ya

Sarah Carr said...

I was going to answer, but it looks like I was beat to the punch.

Actually, doctrinally, Mormonism is one of the least "fire and brimstone" modern religions. All of the levels of heaven/glory are really nice places. The lowest level, the Terrestrial kingdom is supposed to be way nicer than earth. That is the place that the very worst people go, i.e. murderers. Outer darkness is reserved for people who know with physical certainty that God exists and continue to denounces Him. We're taught that this almost never happens. I've heard, but I'm not sure it's doctrine, that Cain is the only person who has ever falleninto this category. Not because he killed his brother, but because he denounced God when he knew better. Again, I'm not an expert on this.

The weakness is not in LDS dogma, but in people who forget that only God can judge. I believe (and I think that this can be doctrinally substantiated) that God is a merciful God. We see this even in our system of the afterlife. Really, it's a pretty sweet set up if everyone is going to eventually end up in a good place. We just forget that only God can decide who goes where.

Lemme know if that makes sense.

Sarah Carr said...


That's where faith comes in. I personally believe that more people will go to the Celestial Kingdom than we know. We know what standards we are supposed to uphold on earth and we know what beliefs we have, but what we don't know is how God interprets sin and the forgiveness process in the next life.

Ash, I know what one of your main beefs with the church is. And you probably don't know that my brother is gay. I know what the church says, I know what I believe, but I don't worry about his soul. God wants us to be happy. He doesn't heaven to be an exclusive place. (I think that's why there are 3 additional degrees of glory within the celestial kingdom- so there is a sense of reward.) You can't believe God loves everyone and believe that he wants us to be unhappy. I think we have to try our best to remember that.

Karissa said...

I was going to answer you, but after reading the other two answers, I don't think I could have said it better myself, so ditto, what they said. I know that sounds lame, I just don't know what else to add.

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